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xyzzy02
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 Henry Darger |
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Some time ago, there was a man called Henry Darger, living in the US. He wrote, typed up, and illustrated, unbeknownst to others, fifteen thousand pages of a manuscript about seven little girls on a planet where child slavery was the norm, and children were used for cannonfodder in wars.
In his illustrations, the girls most often were naked, with penises, though clearly girls. They were often being abused, though never sexually, so far as I know - even in his writing, where children were raped by demons, he elided over the fact, saying the rape was so terrible it could not be described. The torture and maiming of the child at the same time, however, was described in detail.
On his death in his 80s, his landlord found the documents and pictures, cut the pictures (some of them VAST, the size of multistorey murals) out of their bindings and sold them separately. Fortunately the document is in one piece still, in the American Folk Art Museum, though it has never been placed on the net so far as I know. :)
You can read an exerpt of his work here, though: http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/intherealms/special_writings.html
My request: would any kind soul with the kenning of the Flashness be able to extract the high-res pictures from the flash files at the following link?
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/intherealms/special_audio.html
(to view the flash, you need to click "zoom details" for each of the 8 images).
I'm a great fan of his work, but I'm not a great fan of looking at it in a piddly little flash window :(
Also, does anyone know of any of his more violent works? Most of his art on the net (and a fair bit of it seems to have got on here) seems to be far tamer than his works are reputed to be, though I have found a couple which could be described as violent: I include them here.
Please don't think of Darger that he was a twisetd sicko: the majority of his images were of the triumph of loli feminine innocence over the soldiers, rascuing slaves, and so forth. His epic tale was one of innocence vs evil, in which the innocence ultimately won. But he did depict and describe their hardships clearly.
There are a ton more "cutesy" Darger images out there, and a few more "hard" ones that I don't include as they are large images, or are too hardcore. You can find them here (to prevent referral tracking, you'll need to remove the space from the URL before it will work): www.hammer gallery.com/Artists/darger/Darger.htm
"At [illegible location] some Glandolinians try to make Violet and her sisters hang themselves": nl189b.jpg 2725x1287 pixels
[no title: Girls fight soldiers - soldier holds one of them up by the neck, strangling her]: nl248b1.jpg 1348x1076 pixels
[not sure the source: dead and dismembered girls at a battle]: 111966870.jpg - not at the above site.
Is it loli? Is it anime? Well, they are cartoons of naked prepubescent schoolgirls in fantastic costumes with magic powers who participate in cosmic and apocalyptic wars, sometimes hermaphroditic, exploring erotic and violent themes. The only other place in the world that you'd find that is anime.
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| Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:01 pm |
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Grey Render
Newborn Angel
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I dunno ... maybe it's just me, but based on that excerpt in the link above, it seems like the writing style is more akin to some half-witted high school English student than someone who should really be praised.
As for the images, they just remind me of why I hate folk art.
Say what you want about vision, allegory, or what-not, but crap is crap.
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| Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:24 pm |
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xyzzy02
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He was born in 1892, and until he ran away at 17, he was raised in a Catholic home for boys and later an asylum for feeble-minded children.
Despite that, he was certainly no halfwit. He *was* largely uneducated, selfeducated as an artist, and very very poor: most of his work was made on scraps of butcher's paper, stuff like that.
Think what you like, he still managed to write the longest work of fiction ever written (for comparison, the full Encyclopædia Britannica is only twice as long at 31,550 pages, though it is using considerably smaller print than the average typewriter, so that's somewhat misleading), as well as creating, without any artistic training, more than 300 massive works of art in a tiny room far too small to make them in one piece, from basic materials, using very creative and inventive "non-textbook" methods.
Which, frankly, is more than you or I have achieved. More than most people will accomplish in their lifetime. So, yes, praise is due for that alone.
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| Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:48 pm |
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Grey Render
Newborn Angel
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Look, just because he wrote a lot doesn't make it good. 15000 pages of crap is still just 15000 pages of crap.
Besides, it's foolish to judge the quality of a work purely by its length. For example, when Dickens wrote A Tale of Two Cities, he was paid by the word, so he made it longer than he had to. Also, Orwell's Animal Farm is something like 92 pages, and it's probably one of the best books ever written. Steinbeck wrote a lot of novellas, which are widely regarded as literary classics. I'm gonna have to go with Yoda on this one and say "size matters not".
By the way, quality of education or upbringing doesn't really matter as far as artistic merit is concerned. John Steinbeck was a college dropout. Lewis Carol's training was as a mathematician, and yet he became a great poet. Tennessee Williams was raised by an abusive father. Canadian author Gordon Korman published his first novel at the age of 14. Akira Toriyama (creator of Dragonball and Dr. Slump) was also basically self-taught as an artist, as was Yukito Kishiro (creator of Battle Angel Alita).
So, age, upbringing, education ... that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The fact of the matter is that your boy Darger was a poor author (at least, based on the excerpt you shared, which I assume would have been typical of his work, or it wouldn't have been on that site in all likelihood) and a marginally-skilled artist.
On another note, this here Guiness Book of Records I have sitting in front of me says that the longest novel ever published is Les hommes de bonne volonté by Louis Henri Jean Farigoule, the English version of which is 2 070 000 words long. But, if I gather this correctly, Darger's thing was never published, right? Ehn, whatever.
And don't use that "He was born in 1892, and until he ran away at 17" crap on me ... there was a lot of great art before the 1890's, so being born some 100 years ago is really no excuse for sucking.
Anyway, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so don't let my naysaying ruin your fun. If you like this stuff, that's your business, but, like yourself, I'm entitled to my own opinions on the subject. Let's just leave it at that.
P.S. if you're just looking for ultraviolent and sexualized stuff about loli girls, stick with the Marquis de Sade. He was probably better at it.
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"This gun is pointed straight at your heart."
"That is my least vulnerable spot." |
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| Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:09 pm |
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xyzzy02
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I'd argue... but actually, you've made a good argument, and I find myself nodding and agreeing: you're right. While I feel Darger had talent and dedication and vast vision, that definitely is a personal and minority view, shared by far fewer than the people who think he was a pervert retard :)
I collect what pics I can of his art mostly because I think it was a shame that his epic vision has been scattered, but yes, also because violent imagery of loli girls is fun :)
Unfortunately de Sade didn't draw much (from what I know, though I've love to be proven wrong there too!). I have some illustrations from illustrated versions of his works, and even a couple of volumes of his works as graphic novels (Guido Crepax: Justine and The Story of O - I'm not hugely fond of his style, but on the othat hand, those books are crazily cheap compared to most erotic graphic novels). But generally the illustrators shy away from depicting children in them: there are a fair number if situations in "The Lusts of the Libertines" that involve children, but I've never seen any illustrated.
A *very* good source for de Sade illustrations is the S&M archives here: http://marchese-de sade.org/illu/illustrazionis.htm (again, remove the space) - there's some loli art there, but it takes searching for: there's not a huge amount.
That's drifting wildly off-topic though: anyone know how to extract the high-res images from the flash files? They don't seem to be in the flash files themselves, which makes me think that the files are downloading the image fragments as needed: where from, I don't know.
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| Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:44 pm |
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Zevs
Yandere Angel
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Strangely enough, I received such a pic from a totally unrelated guy two weeks ago and found it pretty funny (if not only those with the rifles, they are ugly). Is this ontopic?
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Instead of getting a wife, I learned two languages to read loli doujinshi. FML
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| Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:44 pm |
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