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jacxxx
Beginner Angel
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Posts: 14
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Search Query Questions |
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Q1
Sometimes I´m searching in http://lah.li/search.php for a combination of words like "Lord Gore". I always choose the default search options except for <Search for all terms> and <Display results as: Posts>.
After reading this post of 4stray I recently entered "Lord Gore" without the quotes getting 6 results, the first one is 4stray´s post, the 2nd is not about Lord Gore but - it´s hard to find! - about Overlords being gore or something. Entering "Lord Gore" with the quotes I get <No topics or posts met your search criteria>.
The help text <Search for Keywords: You can use AND to define words which must be in the results, OR to define words which may be in the result and NOT to define words which should not be in the result. Use * as a wildcard for partial matches> doesn´t help much in this case. Strange enough, searching "Lord Gore" and "Lord AND Gore" - without the quotes - return exactly the same results, there is no difference between a <space> and <AND>
Searching Lord Gore site:lah.li on google doesn´t do the job either
Perhaps I´m overlooking something, but in a next update perhaps you could add the quotes for a literal search, or accept the <space> between two words as a search term, or ... ?
Q2
Googling Flonne - also due to this 4toy post - I found interesting information about her in .... http://wiki.lah.li/index.php?title=Flonne
Why doesn´t a lah search include other lah sites (wiki, uservoice, etc?) ?
_________________ My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 |
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:46 am |
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Sat
Star Angel
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Posts: 7539
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The way the current search system works prevents most modifications.
To put it in perspective, about 10% of the database is actual post data.
The rest are search key combinations.
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:01 pm |
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jacxxx
Beginner Angel
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Posts: 14
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Looking around at http://www.phpbb.com/ it appears that the advanced search options have remained essentially the same, so it seems that upgrading, changing settings, ... want help indeed.
( https://www.phpbb.com/support/documentation/3.0/adminguide/acp_general.php#acp_server_search --> LAH uses "Fulltext native"?)
Trying to seek a way out, I just noticed that for the time being (almost) all posts containing a combination like "Lord Gore" can be found simply as follows
1.
After pressing the search button choose
"Search for Keywords: Lord Gore", "Display results as: Posts" and "Return first 1000 characters of posts." Result: Search found 7 matching posts showing the first 1000 characters in each of these posts.
2.
In the result screen press <Ctrl F> and type Lord Gore in the " Find field" of the OS. Result: the "Lord Gore" combinations within the first 1000 characters are clearly highlighted.
In practice, if a post contains interesting info about the particular combination of keywords, this combination probably will show up at the start of the post. So for now: problem solved
_________________ My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 |
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Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:34 am |
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ult_combo
Matrix Angel
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Posts: 86
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Yes, I believe "AND" and a space are equivalent if you have the "Search for all terms" option checked.
As for the wrong results, the search algorithm also matches synonyms of the words searched, so "guro" and "bloody" also match the "gore" term apparently. That, coupled with the lack of searching for specific sequence of terms (double quotes) yield the results you've seen.
To complement on what Sat said, search engines are rather complex things. Although in real life it is easy to say "find me these terms", translating it to machine algorithms is a whole different story. It gets to the point where it is nearly impossible to maintain, as making changes is very prone to breaking other existing behavior. Google Search is just that famous because of all the complexity and optimizations which their huge team developed along the years. For a small team (such as PHPBB's) which has its focus in other areas, it is pretty much impossible to develop a search engine 1/10 as advanced as the world's leading search engine.
With that said, the search algorithm is one of the few parts that LAH hasn't modified yet. The excessive options in the search screen does not only make it seem complicated to the user, its toll in the algorithm's complexity is exponential to the complexity you see in the user interface. It would be possibly a better idea to replace it completely instead of trying to work with that overly unnecessarily complex code, but things like Google Custom Search only offer a few free searchs/day and I don't think it'd be worth paying for at the moment. Maybe we can implement a similar 3rd party service in the future.
_________________ My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art. |
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Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:55 pm |
Profile PM MSN Skype
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Guest
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What an exciting idea, using google (image) searches within lah
I couldn't find the restriction you mention in their ToS but if necessary you could allow each lah-user e.g. one such search/h, in the remaining time we can use the phpbb searcjh?
Maybe newer phpbb versions (3.1 almost seems to be there) perform better without having to change any code?
Btw, something strange just occured. In my opening post I mentioned that searching Lord Gore returned 6 results, the first one being 4stray's post http://lah.li/p/319579, the 2nd one "about Overlords being gore or something". This one doesn't show up anymore, right now I only get 5 results:
- http://lah.li/p/319968
- http://lah.li/p/319839
- http://lah.li/p/319579
- http://lah.li/p/180067
- http://lah.li/p/2166
Only number 4 is a strange result now, containing neither Lord nor Gore explicitly.
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Fri May 02, 2014 4:43 pm |
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ult_combo
Matrix Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 86
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Oh, I was referring to the CSE's JSON API quotas, I'm not sure whether those apply to regular CSE.
Only number 4 is a strange result now, containing neither Lord nor Gore explicitly.
In that post, the quoted user's name contains "Lord" and Elec's text contains "bloody" which is interpreted as synonym to gore.
_________________ My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art. |
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Sat May 03, 2014 4:37 am |
Profile PM MSN Skype
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jacxxx
Beginner Angel
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Posts: 14
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I overlooked the quoted name containing Lord
for some reason I was logged out while preparing my previous post and - without realizing it - I became Guest.
As Guest I now get 7 search results for L... G... and as jacxxx I get 10 results. And something funny happens when you first enter as Guest and afterwards - as a member - do the search again: you have to log in once more
_________________ My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 |
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Sat May 03, 2014 10:56 pm |
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ult_combo
Matrix Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 86
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By default, PHPBB's Search searches in all forum sections which are available to you (see the "Forum" field in the search screen). Many forums sections are not available to guests. Likewise, an user with EF access or moderator rights may get more results than regular users when searching in all available forum sections to them. Of course, right now, Google only indexes pages which are available to guests, so we can't just swap the search engine so easily.
Not sure about the login once more when searching, it might be due to cookies or session id getting lost, can you post detailed steps to reproduce the issue so we can debug it?
_________________ My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art. |
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Sat May 03, 2014 11:21 pm |
Profile PM MSN Skype
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jacxxx
Beginner Angel
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Posts: 14
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I'll try to reproduce the login once again later on, at 2nd thoughts I guess I first logged in as jacxxx, then as guest, and then again as jacxxx.
I'm afraid I just detected another little error in the search function. Working incognito in chrome I search "irina's world". 25 posts are said to be found, the first 15 are displayed and are wonderful, all contain literally "irina's world". Trying to see the next 10 - there have to be more, i think the 1st post will be this one - I get the message "No topics or posts met your search criteria".
_________________ My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 |
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Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm |
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ult_combo
Matrix Angel
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Posts: 86
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Nice catch. For the time being, you can try without the "'s": "irina world" yields a couple more results and the pagination works correctly.
From an early guess, it could be that the stored result's decoding is failing for some reason. That may take a while to find and fix.
Edit: Fixed now. Searches containing apostrophes/single quotes should have working pagination now. I've also fixed the highlighting for search terms which contain single-quotes when viewing posts linked from a search result page.
_________________ My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art. |
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Tue May 06, 2014 6:11 am |
Profile PM MSN Skype
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jacxxx
Beginner Angel
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Posts: 14
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ult_combo: ... That may take a while to find and fix.
Edit: Fixed now. It appears you found and fixed it quite fast
ult_combo: Searches containing apostrophes/single quotes should have working pagination now. I've also fixed the highlighting for search terms which contain single-quotes when viewing posts linked from a search result page. Check --> Search as member and guest works better now.
About the highlighting, could you highlight the search results themselves too? Then we don't have to use the Ctrl F highlighting mentioned before (see also present attachment)
_________________ My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 |
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Wed May 07, 2014 7:32 pm |
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ult_combo
Matrix Angel
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Posts: 86
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jacxxx: It appears you found and fixed it quite fast The fix was about 2 hours or so after the post, mostly because my early guess was rather accurate.
jacxxx: About the highlighting, could you highlight the search results themselves too? Then we don't have to use the Ctrl F highlighting mentioned before (see also present attachment) I had the same idea, looked around the code and found some highlighting algorithm nested way too deep in a mess of over-complicated logic. I may take a second look to try to find what is wrong with it when I have more free time.
_________________ My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art. |
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Thu May 08, 2014 3:03 am |
Profile PM MSN Skype
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