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Problem with layout of lists
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jacxxx
Earth Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 1308

Post Quote
extended your test list a bit -->
  • discovered that the format is not exactly
    Code:
    [list][*] item [*] another item [/list]
    but more like
    Code:
    [list]list title [*] first item [*] another item [/list]

  • the code in the overflow test is tricky, no code-improving spaces are possible in front of that item.

Everything else seems good enough, see my test list below from 1--> until <--1 below Very Happy

1-->
    list title of outer alphabetic list
  • numbered list of titles of the detail function [ spoiler="...title..." ]....content.......[/ spoiler]
      list title of items 1 - 8 below
    • title line 1 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 2 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 3 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 4 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 5 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 6 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 7 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 8 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    content whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      alphabetic list of content items
    • larger than current context width

      • title line 1 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 2 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 3 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 4 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 5 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 6 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 7 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 8 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • Code:
      code tag test

    • quote tag test
    • overflow test
      note: no spaces can be inserted in the code!

      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • last item
<--1



Trying to put the lines between 1--> and <--1 in a spoiler I get - in chrome - an unexpected result:


2-->
    list title of outer alphabetic list
  • numbered list of titles of the detail function [ spoiler="...title..." ]....content.......[/ spoiler]
      list title of items 1 - 8 below
    • title line 1 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 2 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 3 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 4 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 5 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 6 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • line 7 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
    • line 8 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    content whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      alphabetic list of content items
    • larger than current context width

      • title line 1 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 2 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 3 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 4 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 5 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 6 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
      • line 7 whose natural intrinsic width is larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than larger than available width
      • line 8 whose natural intrinsic width is smaller than available width
    • Code:
      code tag test

    • quote tag test
    • overflow test
      note: no spaces can be inserted!

      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • last item
<--2


Instead of one spoiler I get a spoiler followed by an unindented
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • next item
  • last item
Crying or Very sad


edit: exchanged list and spoiler cf next post --> its ok Very Happy


_________________
My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 In Love


Last edited by jacxxx on Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:58 pm Profile PM
ult_combo
Matrix Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 1235

Post Quote
jacxxx:
discovered that the format is not exactly...
What do you mean? There is no such thing as a list title. All content in a list must be inside list items, as I've already said more than once in this thread.

jacxxx:
the code in the overflow test is tricky, no code-improving spaces are possible in front of that item.
The textarea's (editor's) behavior is dependent on the browser. I was more concerned with the rendered output. That is hardly an actual use case, so I'm not concerned about the editor, rather I'm concerned about preventing users from intentionally breaking the site layout with that.

jacxxx:
Trying to put the lines between 1--> and <--1 in a spoiler I get - in chrome - an unexpected result:
You should post as little code as possible when reporting issues. Honestly man, we don't have time to waste scanning through endless walls of text for your invalid bbcode. Anyway, cut off all the clutter and you'll see you have a /list and /spoiler in the wrong order near the end of both of your walls of text, after the overflow test.


_________________
My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.



There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art.
Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:52 pm Profile PM MSN Skype
jacxxx
Earth Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 1308

Post Quote
    Two remarks:

  • I'll keep it as short as possible, but when your testing e.g. how an alphabetic list behaves when it is longer than one alphabet, it's going to be longer than 26 items Laughing


  • ult_combo:
    ... There is no such thing as a list title. All content in a list must be inside list items, as I've already said more than once in this thread.
    I know what you said about lists, therefore it surprised me that in practice there is more than you said before. After accidently creating a list of this type

      list 1
    • item 1
    • item 2

    it occurred to me that a text "list 1" inserted between [ list] and the first [ *] can be used as title of (the remaining part of) that list, just like the good habit to give all little tables in any text a short title.

    Edit
    the "title" can also be positioned below the list:

    • item 1
    • item 2
      list 1

    or you may use upper and lower unbulleted items:

      below we have list 1 containing items 1 and 2
    • item 1
    • item 2
      above we have list 1 containing items 1 and 2

    After my previous post I realized that I have used this "title feature" of lists a number of times in the form

      list 2

    i.e. a list containg only a "title" and no (further) items, resulting in a "one item-list without a button". See e.g. the yellow warning in http://lah.li/2496/bondage-and-forced/?page=65#314574 . Imo it is a perfectly legitimite usage of the list function, I don't know of other ways to create such a "text block".

    It may be that the title usage of the list function is only supported by BBCode, and not e.g. by html or markdown, but I hope you agree that atm there certainly is "such thing as a list title" Embarassed

________________
Note: it may well be that all effects in remark 2 only occur in chrome.


_________________
My avatar shows the first encounter of Yuki in the Land of Eternal Snow. Yuki would become my favorite character in the on-going Mystics Saga by arrancar85 In Love
Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:51 am Profile PM
ult_combo
Matrix Angel
Warnings:
Posts: 1235

Post Quote
jacxxx:
I'll keep it as short as possible, but when your testing e.g. how an alphabetic list behaves when it is longer than one alphabet, it's going to be longer than 26 items Laughing
Well, you can do that kind of testing on the preview screen. No need to carry it over to a completely unrelated issue report.

jacxxx:
I know what you said about lists, therefore it surprised me that in practice there is more than you said before.
In practice you have invalid markup which may break at anytime. (just a friendly heads up)

jacxxx:
Imo it is a perfectly legitimite usage of the list function, I don't know of other ways to create such a "text block". [...]
It may be that the title usage of the list function is only supported by BBCode, and not e.g. by html or markdown, but I hope you agree that atm there certainly is "such thing as a list title" Embarassed
"Legitimate" is pushing a bit over the line. A better classification would be "a hack that works at the current moment".

jacxxx:
It may be that the title usage of the list function is only supported by BBCode, and not e.g. by html or markdown, but I hope you agree that atm there certainly is "such thing as a list title" Embarassed
You're slightly missing the point. Let's see if I can put it simply enough. BBCode and Markdown compile to HTML.
That is, we convert your bbcode into HTML before it can be consumed by a browser. Browsers parse HTML, not bbcode or markdown.
So whenever I say something is not valid BBCode, I mean it does not compile to valid HTML.
And invalid HTML is not something we'd like to have.
BBCode and Markdown are just ways to simplify and/or limit what the end user can do with HTML.

Now, to explain the effect you're seeing:
[ list ] bbcode tags are compiled to <ul> or <ol>, that is, (Un)Ordered List HTML tags. Browsers by default add some left padding to list tags, as you must have realized already.
[ * ] bbcode tags are compiled to <li> (List Item) tags.
The only permitted content inside lists are list items (see reference).
List items can in turn contain text and other elements. However, lists themselves cannot contain text or other elements directly, those must be inside of a list item. Guess I have explained this part already.

Browsers, in order to keep compatibility with pages written in the days of the old quirky HTML, do not error out when they find invalid HTML, rather they attempt to recover it. From there, all kinds of weird behavior may emerge. Post content breaking out of the post bubble, text content inside a list being padded as a list item even though it is not inside of a list item, etc.

And finally, our BBCode parser is crap. It has poor nesting support, as you've observed in many situations (not so much now that I have fixed lists and spoilers nesting). It also does not do any kind of BBCode validation/sanitization, otherwise it wouldn't allow you to insert text directly inside of a list.

In the end, invalid markup gets served to the browser and each browser attempts to recover it as they see fit. This means, browsers may change this behavior at anytime (as it is non-standard) and your indentation may be broken, or worse. If we update the BBCode compilation code, it will most likely "break" (not sure if you can break something that is already broken) that behavior.

So yes, you can use it if you like, but don't complain when it breaks. It is not our intent to purposely serve invalid markup, much less support it.

jacxxx:
I don't know of other ways to create such a "text block".
Because there's no need for one. At least, no one ever needed one thus far. If there was a real need, we'd implement a new bbcode tag for it.


_________________
My main MF acc was suspended, use other mirrors until I re-up it all to a new host.



There is no knowledge that is not power.
Our only limitations are those we set up in our own minds.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Measuring software productivity by lines of code is like measuring progress on an airplane by how much it weighs.
Programming is an art form, whose real value can only be appreciated by another versed in the same arcane art.
Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:00 pm Profile PM MSN Skype
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